For a blog about a foreigner living in France there’s not that much stuff on here about the horrors of French bureaucracy and you could be lulled into a false sense of security that everything was hunky dory and not that hard in France – just as I was.
As I’ve been living here for quite a while now, a lot of my French paperwork has already been taken care of – a kind of “been there, done that” thing. Furthermore, there is no longer any requirement for Europeans to have a Carte de Sejour (a type of residency permit) in order to live in France so I do not have to worry about this either. I do have plenty of horror stories from my days of having to apply though; student residency, short term residency and then the final 10 year residency permit which I now keep in my bed side table as a special souvenir of how I overcame the French system.
These days my experiences are much less frequent and since starting this blog things have been relatively calm on the paperwork front… That was until last month. Since then, paperwork problems have become a common occurrence: Our Avis d’Imposition (tax document showing how much tax you have to pay) arrived accompanied with a cheque for a couple of hundred Euros
Kerching!
If you’re a regular reader you may remember reading my sarcastic comments back in April when I received the tax declaration form to complete. Well thanks to Sarah at St Bloggie de Riviere, Hubby and I decided to have a go at completing the forms online and since I was cutting it fine on the date (I had missed the limit date for sending your application by post) internet seemed to be the way to go.
After hours of battling with the forms (yes, hours!) and constant verification of last years declaration to ensure that we put the right figures in the right place on the right form, we were finally finished. Success! We were so pleased to have completed this highly ennuyeux tast that we celebrated with Cremant. Thankfully the celebrations only took place after having printed out the confirmation page and after having carefully filed this away.
So back to our Avis d’Imposition and the cheque. A closer inspection of the document revealed that they had not taken any of our income into consideration, just a meager portion hence why they were sending us a cheque.
“Great” I thought, “an easy way out of paying tax this year, we had submitted the correct information but they had chosen not to use it and to send me a cheque instead – what could be better?”. I started to day dream about what I would spend the money on? A new bag from Lancel that I had seen in their preview collection? A romantic weekend in Paris or maybe put it towards our plane tickets to Nairobi?
Moral quibbling got the better of me though as a nagging part of my brain kept telling me that it was our responsibility to inform Les Impots of their mistake and to rectify it. Years of hearing horror stories of people being investigated by Les Impots had got the better of me and had turned me into a quivering being in the face of their presence.
So I picked up the phone to them, ensuring that I was not calling just after they started in the morning, therefore giving them plenty of time to relax into their days work. I did not afterall want to risk speaking to an employee who had not yet had their dose of coffee that morning.
I explained the problem to the employee who told me it was not possible that they made a mistake and that I had not submitted the correct information. “non, non” I insisted “I have the proof that the information I submitted contained my full income and not the figures that you have here”. So the employee checked the system and was still indignant that I had not submitted the correct information and started speaking of penalties and false declarations. Desperate I asked him what I could do and was told I had to go and see them with the proof of what I had submitted.
So now today, I have to take my sorry self down to the tax office (mine happens to be the other side of the damn city) and sort their mess out. This is what I love about France – I have done everything correctly on my side, they make a mistake and the onus is on MOI to sort out their problem.
Fingers crossed it all goes well otherwise you may just see a story about a deranged English women assaulting a tax office employee on the TF1 news this evening!
UPDATE: So after plucking up the courage necessary to take myself down to the tax office this morning, I got a ticket and waited for an hour with what seemed like the rest of Lyon (seriously, that place is huge and there were loads of people there). Eventually my number came up just as I was about to fall asleep, so I woke myself up and set off to meet the Taxman! Quickly I explained my problem, showed him the forms, the copy of what I had submitted and the cheque that they had sent me. Just as quickly he explained that I would have to come back as their computer system was down and that he couldn’t do anything today. NIGHTMARE! Seeing that I was furious and obviously a reader of this blog (he must have seen Fly’s comment about the Guillotine) , he was quick to want to give me more money, telling me I can cash the cheque (handbag!) and that furthermore I was entitled to a Prime pour l’Emploi and that I can get this rectified too when I come back. So they want to give me more money??? Something’s not right here so I was careful to take his name and am now back to square 1 regarding this whole matter…



Don’t feel too bad, I have been shouting at English tax officials for years. Taxmen….universally hated and despised at least since biblical times…..I wonder why?
Fantastic post, thanks:-)
Hi Kate, thanks for stopping by. I’m glad you liked the post
Don’t get me started on English tax officials… whilst they never made a mistake on the forms (well, it was me that completed them so they didn’t have anything to do
) I spent years telling them I’d left the country and sending them the same photocopied form, and yet it never seemed to register… arggghhhhh
Hi Piglet. I get chills even thinking about this. You know I’ve been having trouble with my taxe d’habitacion (http://parisimperfect.wordpress.com/2010/02/09/curses-the-f-word-the-b-word/). Believe me, I know what it’s like to have them make a mistake that you then have to sort out. It’s awful! Especially since it’s not just one office you have to go to (in my case). No, no, that would make it too easy to have everything centralized.
I so do not want to jinx this, but I followed up (again) this past August and it *seems* to be taken care of finally. Though who knows? I might get another avis tomorrow in the mail! It’s too bad you’ve just missed going during les vacances. I found the tax people *so much* more helpful in August because less people were there and the officials were more relaxed. Tip for anyone else out there!
Now, at some point, you must tell me your horror story with the 10-year residency card. Mine is coming up in a few months and I’m shaking in my boots! Please let me know what I’m in for! Thanks!
Hi Sion, yes I remember reading about this over at yours, what a horror story! I think you definitely get first prize LOL
Just the thought of having to deal with not one, but two tax offices sends me running for the hills… Fingers crossed that you do not get a repeat episode this year.
Yikes! I hope they get it sorted out. I haven’t had too much problem with my online declaration, although you do have to be pretty careful.
Last year I forgot to check ‘Parent isolé’ and got a request for hundreds more euros than the year before. After my heart attack receded, I showed my declaration to my boss and he identified the problem. I emailed the tax office and they rectified my Avis. PHEW!!!
I hope so too although I’m still to pluck up the courage to go, yesterday I found lots of more interesting things to do rather than go to the tax office – I do not know why!!
It sounds as if you were lucky to be able to get it sorted so quickly and easily, not an easy feat me thinks
LOL of course it was not THEIR mistake. Unbelievable, these Frenchies. I know so many people that have had to go through this kind of nonsense. I hope it gets resolved (and you get your Lancel bag!!)
Thanks Lindsey, my wish list is growing as I write this!
I’m laughing so much, I’m almost weeping!
I have french nationalité…..but
The impots owe me money, and neither head office nor the locale annexe can get their act together, and don’t comme to the same amount they owe……(so, finally, they decided at the local annexe to send me “some”….”en attendant”….”
and said that after the TERRIBLY HARD DAYS OF WORKING IN AUGUST….they would look into it again…and inspite of clear and written instructions with the CORRECT amout that the received from the Head Office and the Grand Manitou…they are holding steadfast with “some”!!
I managed to drive to the annexe to see this 3TERRIBLE HARD DAYS of AUGUST”…ouuuuups
Theu were just sitting there chatting, making private ‘phone calls, and drinking coffée!
However, they are..very very “sympathiques” and not a bit grumpy!!! And the annexe is just two villages further up the road.
I love the fact that the local annexe decided to send you some money “en attendant”… That made me laugh, so typically French and typical of the Tresor!
It’s nice to read that they were not grumpy, I hope this is similar in my local office as I’m still plucking up the courage to go.
I hope you get your affairs sorted and that they soon reimburse you the rest of the money they owe you!
UGH! My fingers are crossed for you! What a pain in the petunia. Hope it all works out soon
Thanks Sara Louise
It’s a good thing that you’re sorting this out. As you know, it’d be your fault if anything were to go wrong. We got a questionnaire from the DDE about our building permit. But we hadn’t asked for one. It took DH hours and two visits for them to figure out that they had the wrong address. GAD!
Bon courage!
aghhhh, what a nightmare that sounds. It really annoys me that we have to waste our time to sort out their mistakes! There is no justice! The time it’s going to take me to sort out could be spent blogging (or maybe even working??).
I’m glad it’s sorted for you now though!
Bonne chance! Luckily, I leave all the tax stuff to my French wife. But I have several tales of horror when I went to get my Carte de Séjour; the worst experience was going to have JUST my address changed on my Carte de Séjour: THREE whole days of my life wasted and being insulted by petty officials. Incredible. And I saw young women officials acting disgracefully to older Arabs and blacks. Shamefull.
At one point, a woman official asked me if I were Norwegian and I replied I was British and she snapped back angrily: “Are you sure!” I told her if it hurried along the change of address of my Carte de Sejour then I’d happily admit to being Norwegian. She hurled back: “This is a serious matter.” I responded with: “I’m being perfectly serious!”
What am I doing living here?!
Merci! I probably should but I decided to take charge of everything as French Hubby is useless at paperwork, also being a female if I can go flutter my eyelids and speak with my great Jane Birkin accent to get me out of hotwater if need be… It’s normally quite easy for me to get help and sympathy from the French administration now that I’ve worked out how to play them… cheeky I know!
What a nightmare your Carte de Sejour story sounds! I take it this was going back some time as we don’t need them now ? Unless maybe you do if they think you’re Norwegian? How bizarre! How on earth did they work that one out, were you born in Norway or something?
How infuriating when you spent so much time getting it right. Hope you get it sorted soon and that the cheque IS yours!
Thanks Ayak, so do I! **SIGH**
Deep sympathy!
But you’re right to get it sorted before it rises up years later and involves a full scale investigation.
So frustrating that they make the mistake and you waste time and energy, not to speak of being threatened by them!
There’s a guillotine in our local museum….want me to ask them to send it down to you to put up in the courtyard of the tax office?
Short cut. Do you know any of the local politicians currently in local, regional or national power?
I’m obviously mixing in the wrong circles and need to sort out my social priorities PDQ. Although having said that, I was once sold a car by the nephew of the mayor of Lyon, maybe worth tracking down LOL
The guillotine sounds a good idea, if what somewhat dangerous in my hands…
I’m plucking up courage to go this morning, maybe I’ll just finish my coffee and go
I think government just likes to mess with everyone. My husband was notified yesterday that his form for how much taxes will be withheld was not the correct form and now he will have to wait three month to get the right one. Therefore, when we travel to Italy this week. He will not get paid until he has that form. Ugh!
Oh no! How awful for you! I hope it comes through sooner than that, that’s dreadful.
I think they do it deliberately just to remind us of who is in charge and to put us back in place from time to time.
UPDATE: So after plucking up the courage necessary to take myself down to the tax office this morning, I got a ticket and waited for an hour with what seemed like the rest of Lyon (seriously, that place is huge and there were loads of people there). Eventually my number came up just as I was about to fall asleep, so I woke myself up and set off to meet the Taxman! Quickly I explained my problem, showed him the forms, the copy of what I had submitted and the cheque that they had sent me. Just as quickly he explained that I would have to come back as their computer system was down and that he couldn’t do anything today. NIGHTMARE! Seeing that I was furious and obviously a reader of this blog (he must have seen Fly’s comment about the Guillotine) , he was quick to want to give me more money, telling me I can cash the cheque (handbag!) and that furthermore I was entitled to a Prime pour l’Emploi and that I can get this rectified too when I come back. So they want to give me more money??? Something’s not right here so I was careful to take his name and am now back to square 1 regarding this whole matter…
When you get a good deal from this guy, put his name about in the Lyons area and try to bankrupt the state…shouldn’t be difficult.
I think the chances that I get to speak to that guy again are very slim unfortunately for me and for the rest of the Lyonnaise people
To be honest I’m not sure what to do now, I’m not keen to go and waste yet more time there, but it looks like I’m going to have to. Next time I’ll call ahead though and ask if their system is working.
What a nightmare!
But I especially like the part of your blog where you write that you waited a bit to call, not wanted to catch an Impôt employee pre-caffine fix in the morning. (Funny ’cause I do that too!)
As for me : This past year we paid taxes on a monthly basis (taken as a virement). But when we received the letter back in January, telling us what they would be taking every month, it seemed rather low. So I wrote to them asking if there was a mistake. They said “non”. And so we got hit with a big fat “avis d’imposition”
Next year will be easier they say.
I hope your situation becomes somewhat clearer. Or maybe they’ve just decided to tax the billionaires more and hand the little people checks in Lyon!
Hi there, thanks for stopping by. It’s lovely to see new visitors and share other people’s experiences here too.
What a horrible thing to have happened to you! It’s especially horrible given that you queried the amount being low, what a disaster! Do they not realise that they can impact heavily on people’s lives?
My situation is no clearer currently but that is more so because I have not taken the time (or had the time!) to go back to see them as yet… I really must but I have lost the will!
Good on you for having the courage to go down alone to sort it out! I hope round 2 goes a bit better…conserve your strength! Bon courage!
Merci! I need to draw some more courage though for round 2…
Yikes, feel like I want to break-out in hives just looking at the pictures…let alone tackling the crazy bureaucracy myself. Been lucky enough to have the bf take care of things so far..but have to make an appt to take care of my own tax issues next month.
I’ll keep all this in mind…and send you good tax resolutions vibes in the meantime! xx
Thanks for the good vibes Tuula! I’m stocking them up ready for round 2!
I thought it was a better idea that I looked after our taxes as Hubby gets very irate, he does not have much patience with the little man dictator type people that you find in these types of public institutions in France.
Good luck with your tax affairs, I’ll be sending you positive vibes too
Why are we looking the gift horse in the mouth, here? Notice the subtly we.
LOL!
We usually get a big payment consisting mainly of PPE. This year they have told me I owe them 940€. Outrageously rude, I call it. Clearly I must do less work in future.
You obviously spent too much time sitting in a hut! How dare they!
Fingers crossed indeed!!
PS: I used to live in Lausanne, Switzerland. Not only is everything uber bureaucratic, everything costs you dearly. Like handing in a form or getting a stamp into your passport or getting a permis de sejour (which of course you still need there). Happy to be living in England now
Ah yes, I’m sure Switzerland is a bundle of joy paperwork wise! My husband has duel nationality and for a shortwhile we considered moving there, but what did it for us was how much everything varied between each canton – we found it impossible to get straight answers so eventually gave up!
Isn’t England simple in comparision?
Oh god, I just read this post. What a nightmare! I’ve got an accountant as I just can’t face the forms. You’d think that would simplify things, but so far I think it would have been easier to do it myself. I hope you get this sorted out soon (*with* handbag).