Ambers’ tales have left me weak kneed about what’s to come and have made me realize I seriously have to get my act together. So I have listed everything that’s not right with my relationship with the French Social Security people and have tried to start attacking my list as best as I can:
With the impending move, its best I get everything sorted now; otherwise a change of address and department will make things even more complicated than they already are.
I did start trying to sort things out this summer and things came to a head in September when my Doctor disappeared (read post here). After writing this post, I waited a while in case my Doctor showed a sign of life and come mid-October I still hadn’t had any news either from my old Doctor (who really has disappeared off the face of the earth) or from the lovely people at the CPAM (social security).
In order to achieve any result in France it’s best to think like a French person and act as they would. In this case sending a registered letter should do the trick. So I wrote to them, in my best French, explaining my situation and including as much documentation as I could.
They also still owed me money for the month I had off work in February after my fondue fork stabbing incident and a whole months salary is not a little amount. I reminded them in my letter that I was still waiting for this payment to come through and again I included documentation supporting my case.
Feeling pleased with myself for having attacked the problem head-on and in due form, I posted the registered letter and sat back and waited for a response, certain that everything would be resolved in a timely manner.
That is, until today. My kind Outlook calendar burst into action and reminded me to check my bank account for payments. I dutifully did so, rather hoping to have received a windfall (I’m owed a couple of thousand Euros), but niltch, nada, nothing.
Feeling really peeved I called the CPAM (social security people) and tried to find out why over a month and half after doing everything they told me to do nothing had happened. My situation is really complicated and I could hear the woman on the other end of the phone switching off as I tried to explain.
My braces were shredding at my tongue and my cheeks and I was in agony as I applied as I applied my very best French accent (not easy these days since I’ve had lingual braces fitted) as I outlined everything that was still wrong with my health cover and payments.
Rather amazingly, the lady managed to summarize what I had spent the last five minutes trying to say in a couple of phrases (does this mean this type of problem is common?) and told me that she couldn’t help! WHAT? I had gone to all that trouble for nothing, steam was coming out of my ears!
She took my telephone number and said that she would pass a message on to the appropriate service. When I enquired as to when I can expect a call she informed me 21 days!! How pathetic is that? I told her that I’d already written in well over 21 days ago and that I hadn’t heard anything. All she could say was that she was sorry and that she couldn’t do anything more.
I know it’s not her fault so I really did manage to reign in my anger and frustration but I was absolutely livid. This is a lot of money we’re talking about and at this time of year after all the taxes etc have wiped out my account and with all the baby stuff we need to purchase, I really could do with getting what I have contributed into the system for as per my rights.
Afterall, if I stopped contributing they would soon stop paying but they’re not even paying when I am contributing! What to do?
I’ve decided I’m going to give them another 10 days and then I’ll be sending another registered letter with copies of previous correspondence, details of calls and I will also be addressing a copy to a mediator or something (gosh, I hope one exists, any ideas?).
Until then I’ll be keeping a close eye on my Carte Vitale (the essential French healthcare card which contains all my social security details and is required at every medical occasion) so not to lose it and further complicate matters. Unfortunately my brilliant pregnant brain is playing havoc and I keep loosing it. The Carte Vitale is the size of a credit card and only this morning did I risk loosing it again by absent mindedly putting it in yet another car parking payment machine.
Oh God, I do feel for you. They’re a nightmare! They just demanded €3,500 from me as a 2009 ‘adjustment’, then demanded another €4,200. After sending the cheque and calling to make sure they got it, they informed me that the second amount included the first – which they had already received! And no, a refund would take quite some time. I cancelled the cheque. So many other problems just *getting* the Carte Vitale in the first place. So frustrating. I hope you get it sorted.
It’s criminal that they can get away with this type of thing, I dread to think how people who literally live hand to mouth manage.
When I was self employed I had similar issues with the “adjustments” and in the end I handed everything over to the accountant to handle.
I have had three Carte Vitale’s since being in France, obtaining them each time was an experience: the first was when they first came out, I think they sent it to me automatically but getting the social cover was a nightmare, the second was when I became self employed 4 years ago and the 3rd was when I became a salaried employee of the company. Each time it was a total NIGHTMARE!
What a nightmare! Not what you need at the moment.
Every department is supposed to have a delegate of the Mediateur de la Republique…try the prefecture website or phone your mairie for the contact number.
These are usually retired civil servants who tend to know where the bodies are buried…..or, given recent posts, in whose chimney to start looking…
Good luck!
Thanks for the tip Fly – I will be investigating this if I don’t get anywhere within the next 10 days. I think I have been more than patient and I dread to think what would happen if I was relying on the money to pay my mortgage or to buy food!
Piglet, when I had frightful problems with suppliers of faulty goods, and was getting nowhere, I was told about AFOC – Association Force Ouvriere Consommateurs. They resolved the problems with a simple but very forceful phone call. I have an idea that they might have links to the Communist Party as their local offices are side by side, and I was told that they are extremely militant and an organisation that people do not want to get on the wrong side of. (That’s bad English, I know, but I’m too cold to care today.) 😀
How much power they could wield over the CPAM or other State outfits I don’t know, but it might be worth your while to phone your nearest branch and ask.
I can think of many a time when I wish I had heard of these people! I’ll be keeping their name in a safe place.
It’s amazing how a forceful call from an organisation such as this one can get things moving though isn’t it? I’m glad it got things sorted for you.
Thanks for the tip!
I keep my carte vitale in a separate place to my credit cards, tucked right down in the middle pocket of my bag and impossible to take out by mistake.
I would hate to think what I’d do if my bag ever got stolen, the paperwork to get everything renewed would be hell!
I have friends waiting for a backlog of secu payments going back 3 years. Just because they moved.
That’s a good idea! I think I will have to keep mine separate as well.
Yes, the whole having your bag nicked thing is really worrying. What do you carry round with you as ID? Your passport? I carry a really old Carte de Sejour (from the times we still needed it) as I’m scared silly of having my passport nicked.
I hope your friends get their backlog of payments sorted out, that’s really bad. It just goes to show that the system only works if you can afford to wait for them! The thought of my problems not getting resolved before I move are terrifying, I am not going to let up.
I can’t imagine being pregnant in a foreign country – yikes!
Fellow expat, XO Laura
Thanks for dropping in Laura, its lovely to have new readers and discover new blogs 🙂
This is my first baby so to be honest I don’t have anything to compare it to. I do get the feeling that I’m not doing all that I should be in terms of registering etc but I guess I’m getting by…
Have you had more snow in London today?
What a sadly typical mess. My advice, go to the local SS office and talk to them face-to-face. They’ll have to give you some satisfactory answer or they won’t be able to get rid of you.
Bon courage.
Thanks Dedene. I certainly need lots of courage.
I have been to the SS office twice now, the first time they were useless and the second time they told me the same information as they gave me on the phone and recommended that I send a registered letter. Its all a bit of a joke really. But I think I’ll give it a go in person again next Friday if I still don’t have any news. I’ll send another registered letter and will also go in person… Fingers crossed it gets sorted before mind!
Dear Piglet,from the vast experience I have gathered in my life, fighting similar battles in a similar absurd birocratic environment I can tell you the following:
1. phones and letters (registered or not) mean nothing and prove nothing to THE ADMINISTRATION system
2.the best way to deal with such a problem is to go there and dsicuss to them face to face, asking, each time they tell it is not their particular field or expertise to present you to the person in charge about it and then do not leave the office untill they clearly make prove they will help you and prove it( like them making the dilligence required to meat your problem- it is always possible if they want to do it and they will want to do it if you ask directly for it) .
3.what you need to make them help you is registerd complains. In every state institution , from mairy to a general school there is an office called Registration Office where all official papers from citizens have to get a stamp with a serial number and the date they were filed in the office. It is the ONLY official prove the state is considering. Any document, complaint a.s.o exists IF you have it registered in the specific institution and DOES NOT exist if you have no registration number on your inquiry,complaint, etc.For any complaint or inquiry, they put that stamp and give a registration number and hand you a kind of receipt you must take care of because it is your proof you have asked the institution to solve your situation. 10 inquiries, 10 registration numbers and 10 receipts a.s.o. If they don’t answer in due time, you take your receipts , go there and strat to make a fuss out of it. ” bla bla bla, solve my problem, I pay my taxes/ you are paid from my taxes/ this is my 10/100/1000 receipts and regsitration numbers/ this is the proof you are not doing your job/ solve my problem RIGHT AWAY”, This is why internet and letters usually are regarded as nothing in the “official ” world. It is like sending a letter in a bottle in the hope someone would eventually get it. It never happens, or it happens only in TV series and books.
4)regarding the family doctor, I am sure you can first find yourself a new one and ask him what is the procedure to become his particular pacient. In my country, if I change the familly doctor, I bring the new one a set of papers and documentation and he would make the enquiries to the state office to assign me there. I mean there has to be a procedure for situations when people just wanna switch doctors … I would approach this situation from this point of view. Regardless of the old doctor vanishing or not, imagine you wanna change him. How can you do this ? Maybe it is simpler than producing the evidence the old doctor is gone and maybe you can find some “niche” way to get to another doctor ….
P.S. this is always the hard way and is exhausting . I usually ask my husband to find someone he knows/who works there and who can help him do all these for me. And it works.
Hi Rosabell, Many thanks for the time you have taken to share your thoughts and for the advice you have given. From what I have been reading it seems as if this would be the best approach in France as well Romania. I am definitely going to follow this advice and am already planning sufficient reading material, tissues for teary eyes, water etc for my trip next Friday.
The most frustrating thing though is that it was them that told me to send them stuff! But now I know why – so they can ignore it!
As for the Doctor, well I’ve found another Doctor that part wasn’t hard. What is hard is that the social security people lost the certificate from my old Doctor, so all the medical expenses I incurred whilst I was supposed to be registered with him have not been paid properly as the social security people consider that I didn’t have a registered Doctor. Now that he has disappeared no-one knows what I should do. But as you say, there has to be some type of procedure regarding this, its not possible there isn’t anything in place, it’s just a question of finding the person that knows what to do!
Thanks again Rosabell.
Mr. Fly’s last specialist became so annoyed about a problem similar to yours which was affecting one of her patients that she took time out to go with him to the appropriate office..she felt the stress and the lack of money was affecting his already fragile health.
She told us…and the rest of the waiting room…what happened.
The woman behind the desk listened, then gestured towards an inbox of unopened envelopes…all recorded delivery.
‘If it gets higher than the top of the tray we tip them in the bin.’
No one seemed very surprised.
(She did get a result, finally…but by pulling strings through some bigwig she was also treating.)
I will take the above as a lesson learned combine it with everyone else’s advice and go on down to the Secu office in person next Friday. Or thinking about it probably sooner than that as after reading your comment I don’t think anyone will ever call me back.
Thankfully my case isn’t too serious, its not affecting my health, its just money (which I could really do with right now, but I’m not out on the street) but I think it’s deeply irresponsible for these so called public services to treat people like this. I know it’s probably the same the world over – how’s it for you in Costa Rica?
OMG! I can see that the health system in France can be even worse (is it possible?) than in the UK or Poland! I’m keeping my fingers crossed for you that everything will be sorted soon. I absolutely HATE when you explain something to someone for like half an hour and then they say that they canNOT do anything! And they’re called a helpline??? Grrr!
Btw – you have beautiful header picture – I just noticed! 🙂
xox
Helplines that cannot help should be done for misleading advertising! Thankfully it wasn’t on a premium rate number… I could have a good old moan about those!
France’s healthcare system is good generally in terms of medical care although I have heard of some horror stories lately. My problems to date have only been on the financial side and I do hope I get them sorted soon.
Thanks for the comment ref the header, would you believe it is the template header that came with the blog the day I set it up? I really should take care of doing something more “French” but between reading blogs and blogging here I have to work to earn a living and I also quite like it!
Do hope you manage to get everything sorted. We hear lots of tales from expats about how scary the French health system can be – but lots of praise for it when it works!
Yup, like lots of things in France I’m afraid to say.
Costa Rica? So far as sweet as a nut and I’m a glass half empty person after years of living in France.
Immigration…no problem.
Suing the local authority over run off damage…no problem.
Entering the health service…ditto…and we cannot believe the standard of care!
It’s like entering another world!
Local council are total rubbish…and will be total rubbish after the elections on Sunday too.
Corrupt politicians..
Problems with gun crime…Mr. Fly just missed a hold up by minutes in a local shop….
But, generally, and from talking to Costa Rican friends…if you’re entitled, you get.
You might have to wait a couple of hours in a queue…but you get.
Sounds like Paradise compared to here except with a bit of hun crime maybe? Mr Fly sounds as if he was lucky!!
I like the idea of if you’re entitled you get. It is an alien concept!
Hmmm. I’m stumped. I have no advice, only hugs! I hope you sort things out. Thankfully, I’m on my husband’s plan and we also have complimentary insurance, which I don’t quite understand.
Thanks Samantha! Still nothing has happened since this post so it looks as if I’m really going to have to go down there and sort it out in person. My knees are trembling!
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